I agreeto Idea Come up with efficient ways to communicate
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Come up with efficient ways to communicate

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Yes

We travel all the time to meet and for training. With such budget problems is travel really needed with our current technology.

Why can't we make the best of it for now and use web, video and phone conferencing.

When times are good we can travel again.

Thanks

EDIT: I found these posts buried down in the hundreds of ideas.

Thanks to the authors:

http://governmentreform.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Elimninate-End-of-Year-Spending/118530-13060

http://governmentreform.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Utilize-the-Site/120215-13060

http://governmentreform.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Analyze-processes-and-improve-them-to-reduce-work/121196-13060

Submitted by Community Member 2 years ago

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(latest 20 votes)

Comments (87)

  1. Video conferencing can only do so much. When I got o a Region for a meeting, I make sure I schedule more than one meeting and I check up on other cases and issues. Face to face time with regional staff is much better than video conferencing.

    2 years ago
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  2. It depends on cost, availability, scheduling and connectivity. In theory, it's a good idea; in practice, I'm not so sure.

    2 years ago
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  3. I agree about travel related to training as long as the local office could do some of it face to face. As micromash, centra alone, etc is not enough to transfer knowledge, skills, etc.

    2 years ago
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  4. I like the idea of web training, but there are some training assignments that must be off site. So all training off site should not be curtailed.

    2 years ago
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  5. I am a proponent of face-to-face meetings as a valuable way to build working relationships and increase productivity. However, I think current budget problems should force us to reduce much of our government travel. Most office conference rooms should be better equipped for video conferencing. I'm not a Second City fan, but think we should also consider how IBM is using Second City to form project groups and teams to coordinate from around the globe, many having never met each other in person. The travel cost savings of these unique approaches could be huge.

    2 years ago
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  6. Many office use video conferencing but it should be used more widely to decrease 1 day travel. There are many other options available such as the use of a wiki (which allows multi people to work together on one document, brainstorming, commenting and even live chatting), sharepoint (another site used for collaboration), etc.

    We must acknowledge that some travel is needed but it could certainly be cut down and as many things which can be combined should be done while on a site visit.

    2 years ago
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  7. By Submitted:

    I agree some things need to be hands on. Honestly, in some cases it is needed, but not most.

    Don't get me wrong, I like to travel too. Just not at the expense of future generations.

    2 years ago
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  8. I'm a big believer that one size does not fit all. And sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good. Our agency has begun using video conferencing for events that are just too costly to continue hosting with all participants in one place. One advantage to using video conferencing is that people who wouldn't in the past have been able to attend - just one person per location ever got a ticket - can now attend the virtual conference.

    Use options as they make sense. But don't write off an option just because "we haven't done it that way before."

    2 years ago
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  9. This is practical--as well as measurable in terms of the ROI factor. Technology has even advanced to the point that professional conferences/events can now take place online. Why not? Bill Thimmesch

    2 years ago
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  10. The OMB Max online community has teamed up with Adobe Connect. It's a great way to connect with interagency partners. Enclaves can be set up to use it to communicate with non-USG partners like contractors or legislative branch folks. So we have options already - there's just a small barrier to entry that trips people up (you have to get an OMB Max log-on. You have to sponsor all the non-USG folks in another community, which isn't automatic.)

    2 years ago
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  11. I agree, this is something that was supposingly implemented but never carried out. We can and should save by cutting travel and performing training online. We must be consistence with this practice or it will never become cost effective.

    2 years ago
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  12. Also, let's stop paying Microsoft for such expensive services and make use of lower-cost conferencing tools. WebEx is good. But Microsoft's quality is far from where it ought to be, so why pay them for all the troubles and restrictions (i.e. browser issues)?

    2 years ago
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  13. There is definitely an optimal mix of face-to-face and videoconferencing. The optimal mix is not 100% face-to-face or 0%, but it's not 100% videoconferencing or 0% either. Let's work on an 80/20 solution (either way) and see whether we end up wanting more or less video!

    2 years ago
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  14. yes good idead...this should be a given.

    2 years ago
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  15. The only people that will disagree with this concept is the dept.heads that go to the training. You hear more about their extra-caricular activities than you do about their training when they return. In the Bureau of Prisons, business office staff and human resources get most of the training, which when they return and hear about it, they could easily have done the training through tele or video conferencing.

    2 years ago
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  16. My agency has been doing this for years. Unfortunately our video conferencing equipment is not always the greatest. In the middle of the afternoon the screen will freeze because my agency does not have enough bandwidth to handle normal business and a video conference at the same time. When your budget has been tight for many years (like ours), we have already substituted conference calls, webinars and video conference calls for travel. Sometimes you HAVE to meet face-to-face to get things done efficiently.

    2 years ago
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  17. For some things, like SSA when we wrote the national BA lesson plan in 2007, it works. For other things, like teaching Claims Representatives, it does not work. SSA claims they receive glowing supportive reviews from their training classes in support of their ICT training. They are lying. I know every CR trainee that I've talked to hates the basic training. It does not work.

    2 years ago
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  18. I think the author is talking about the conferences, and seminars that last for weeks. They usually turn into long winded dissertations about theory, and very little real applications. I agree some meetings, and travel are needed and are vital to operations, but I've been to enough of them to know that travel breaks the monotany, and rejuvinates us but some of it can be done through teleconferencing, and other savvy techy ways.

    2 years ago
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  19. I think that we need to adapt to the technology to provide more education on site. We are wasting a lot of dollars on increasing travel costs and lodging. One example: when staff went to training for a new idea or concept, the idea was for them to return and train the staff with the new idea. This doesn't always happen. Last year, a group of staff went to Las Vegas for a week. Airfare, lodging and perdiem pay was provided to the tune of several thousand dollars. A very small amount of this information was passed on and by a limited number of those same staff. Come on! Let's stop wasting money!!

    2 years ago
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  20. I totally agree! I have traveled many dozens of times throughout my career. I really enjoy meeting folks from all over the country and living on per diem. However, with current technology and budget issues, 95% of travel is no longer necessary and the expense is totally out of control with our need to balance the Federal budget. I can Netconference anywhere in the world now with my new iPAD 2 with Facetime. No, this is not an endorsement for Apple but does show that it can be done with minimal expense.

    2 years ago
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  21. Telework.

    A cheaper tool to make it happen.

    To save $$ (not buy & maintain Govt laptops) and still access your Govt computer desktop, deploy the near-free LPS-Remote Access. See http://spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm

    2 years ago
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  22. Good idea--let's use the technology available to cut down on costs.

    2 years ago
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  23. Being able to dial in from your desk alone would save time for everyone. As a recording secretary, I'd appreciate a standardized forum in which one person has the floor to speak. People tend to ramble on with information that is not needed in getting to the point.

    Meetings should begin promptly and last only 30 minutes. This would force participants to be concise and the overall meeting to be more productive.

    Please see my idea, # 192 I believe, about TELE-Recording Secretarys. Thanks:)

    2 years ago
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  24. Some managers will be reluctant to endorse such an idea as they would be required to do more work at their office. I would like to see an itemized list of the actual expenses for travel for each of the Federal Agencies. It could be a real eye opener!

    2 years ago
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  25. Agree, agree. Skype is free if you are working Skype to Skype. GoogleChat is free. Why are we traveling for training or meetings when technology has given us so many free long-distance communication tools instead? I can watch a JTN seminar at my desk while continuing to work. Please, let's not waste more taxpayer money on these little boondoggles for government workers.

    2 years ago
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  26. Any number of technologies can do this and do it well. I suggest that we use this technology regardless of whether or not "times are good"; it is a bad habit that we are in of trying to operate more efficiently only when we have no other choice.

    2 years ago
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  27. Forest Service employees video conferencing at many of our large to medium sites; I'd like to see it at Desktop so we don't have to compete with conference room scheduling. With that, I betcha our travel budget is still "out of whack" given our capabilities! Gary

    2 years ago
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  28. I agree with the suggestion -- training on the web (on-line) or teleconference. Not sure how expenses the teleconference would be -- place training on hold unless manatory if not offered on-line.

    2 years ago
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  29. This is not a bad idea but the ACN IRIS 5000 videophone like Mr. Donald Trump Sr. uses can be connected to a large flat panel display resulting in excellent picture and sound quality. However, our staff is required by law to travel to meet in personal interviews with company officials in 10 or 11 months each year.

    2 years ago
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  30. I agree that some of the training needs to be face-to-face. Most training could easily be done via the desktop. Video conferencing and Centra make things so much easier and save so much time. Don't forget...travel means one to two days of NO productivity per traveler. That should be unacceptable. And do not tell me that you can ERAP in. Really?-J

    2 years ago
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  31. Technology is great but nothing replaces the in class experience on some of the more intense training. The previous training in FIMMI is a case for WebEx conferencing. Using canned vendor material was not useful. However, in class agency training either brings to light or resolves many issues when networking and interacting with peers. There is also the issue of privacy in the workplace to take into consideration. In a busy office, even with headphones and a sign on your desk, constant interruptions take away from the learning experience making you less productive. There should also be a Composite - Complete Mandatory Standardized List of training for individuals at all levels instead of one scattered here and there.

    2 years ago
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  32. Also - you cannot teleconference with a bird or other research animal. You simply HAVE to travel and follow the trail of these creatures to accomplish needed research.

    2 years ago
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  33. I came to the FAA from private industry where telework and video conferencing was the norm because we would typically have people conferenced in from several continents. With that kind of meeting, the time it would take for face-to-face meetings was impossible. There is absolutely no reason for wasting the tax payers money on all of this unnecessary travel.

    2 years ago
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  34. I posted this same idea the last go around in 2010. People say that some things need to be dealt with "hands-on." I agree, but some means very few. The rest of Government business should be handled via web conferencing, teleconferencing, etc. There are so many technology based programs out there and the Federal government is one of the biggest employeers who doesn't utilize them to their fullest extent.

    2 years ago
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  35. Great ideal. most TDY is a waist and can be done tele com

    2 years ago
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  36. I agree with video-conferencing web-based training ideas. I also think that travel should only be necessary if it would benefit or perhaps enhance the mission of the office, department, or agency. Each traveler should be required to give an update of what was learned from the conference or training and how it will be implemented.

    2 years ago
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  37. By Submitted:

    Great ideas here. Hopefully these ideas can all be used to come up with a great plan.

    Thanks for all the input.

    2 years ago
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  38. Our agency has severe travel restrictions which are often ignored with little consequence, but limit our ability to bring in experts from within our own agency for specific projects, because that "goes against or travel budget" - very frustrating.

    2 years ago
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  39. Yes, I agree we should be using Audio Conferences, Webinars, PicTels and Videos in the most effective and efficient manner possible to minimize all operating costs as much as possible, particularly travel expenditures.

    2 years ago
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  40. I beleive this is an excellent idea! Too many upper level managment constantly leave for travel. This could easliy save which could savethousands of dollars. Great idea!!

    2 years ago
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  41. We could do face to face with Web cams.

    2 years ago
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  42. You’re right instead of traveling for training why not use web devices instead, but another idea then having groups of federal employees going to a single location for training and wasting a lot of money in travel expenses to get there. Why not bring the trainer to the trainees. Hire a trainer to travel from district office to district office. All the government needs is one trainer for each department / agency. That person’s job would be to travel all through the United States to district / regional offices and train federal employees. This keeps the training sessions small, trainer can have more attention on trainee, employees will be learning/training with people they work, plus this cuts down on travel expenses.

    2 years ago
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  43. I agree with the post about bringing in a trainer to instruct an entire class to save on TDY costs.

    2 years ago
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  44. At my agency, people don't travel to meet, they schedule meetings in order to travel. I call them travel junkies.

    Unless they travel to a meeting, the meeting doesn't count. (But it does get them out of the office so they can't do any real damage.)

    One official said they were on travel all the next month. In other words, see how important I am while getting wined and dined by top corporate executives. His oral trip report to the slugs and grunts consisted mostly of commercial product offerings already widely hyped in the trade press.

    Now to gather firsthand information, there is often no substitute for a firsthand visit. Especially to sense if something is amiss. (That happened at my agency, sexual misconduct known on the grapevine for YEARS that no one in the office volunteered.)

    However, to reach out among time zones and different countries, email and teleconferencing (minus the video) is about as good as it gets.

    2 years ago
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  45. VideoConferencing is a great alternative to a face to face, if the audience and the topic supports its use. Sensitive issues, speaking to a group that may misconstrue intent and the like should avoid VideoConferencing, but typical staff training or meetings-perfect!

    2 years ago
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  46. Although online training isn't appropriate for every type of training, many training sessions can be handled online at great savings.

    2 years ago
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  47. When on travel, I am not constantly pulled away by other projects, phone calls, or meetings and may give my full attention to the subject at hand. Too many times when I intend to participant in a meeting by voice conference, an "emergency" developes and I am unable to complete the conference call.

    2 years ago
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  48. It's not about training - it's a "perk" to go somewhere, get out of the daily grind, and to network - these things are not bad, but make the gov't look like they have tto much discretionary money to throw around when the economy is in such bad shape. Most of all, it is not an efficient way to train people. I DOUBT ANYONE COMES BACK WITH THE GOVT'S MONEY'S WORTH. The best training is when the person has to pay for the training out of their own pocket - that's how people learn.

    2 years ago
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  49. I think assumptions are made that travel not necessary; which is not true. In the navy, our regions cover many states which are only accessible by air travel do to the time it would take to drive. We need to travel to those sites at least 2 times a year.

    Travel needs to be evaluated on whether the goal of the mission can be achieved via technology. Also evaluate on the number of personnel that need to attend.

    Webinars are great and should be used for meetings and computer type training that requires the availability to have discussion and ask questions.

    Speaking of computer training, we need to provide more to our personnel. The government has given us great computers with software that most and only use 25% of its full capability.

    2 years ago
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  50. I turn my phone off and close my door to let people know I am busy. No interuptions. Quite easy to do.

    I agree with the post on having trainers visit the area or individual offices also.

    Travel is totally out of hand for some managers and travel junkies as one community member stated. If I were the President, I would have frozen travel instead of wages. It would have saved far more $$ and kept the morale much higher.

    2 years ago
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  51. The technology has already been implemented, but in most all cases I've seen, each command and manager is left to decide (without any restrictions other than the travel budget they've been given) whether to use VTC/DCO/etc. types of technologies, or to physically travel to the event. We need to implement a requirement for a strong justification of travel, so that it's only used when really necessary.

    2 years ago
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  52. SKIPE seems to work as well as television for communications live.

    2 years ago
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  53. We use two different softwares:

    -Saba's Centra Virtual Enviroment

    -Microsoft's Office Communicator

    They allow employees to collorabate without the need of travel. Much more effective in my opinion!

    2 years ago
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  54. Do we really know if travel is a great expense. I don't think it is and believe its misleading with all of our suggestions.

    In my agency, when funds are cut, the first thing that goes is travel & training. Training in my opinion should not be cancelled, we need our staffs to be fully trained and current with policy and procedures for their career field.

    2 years ago
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  55. Travel is not a significant expense where I work, but is the most important activity people think about. A few years back the travel budget was overrun before the end of the fiscal year, and I thought all h***** would break loose. No other concern, issue, project, etc. came close.

    Now when there are budget problems, cutting travel doesn't make any difference. It is less than 0.5% of our budget. Yet there was one manager who immediately said we could cut travel to address a multi-million dollar budget screw-up. Which suggested the only line item he cared about was travel and he never bothered to read the rest. And was otherwise clueless about the definition of "significant".

    (However, there is a positive side to all this. If bird flu ever hits, it will be the travel junkies that succumb first.)

    2 years ago
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  56. Four days of travel within or out of state for me has typically been in the $4000-5000 range from my records over the last 28 years. This includes fees for the course and per diem.

    Government employees typically get a higher rate for plane travel also. It is typically double what I can book myself.

    Training should be ongoing and led by state office staff and the resource professionals there.

    2 years ago
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  57. I agree that VTC, teleconference, Webex, etc. are all good ideas for use - in theory, however, we need to ensure the connectivity is in place and functioning prior to full cutover. I've been in too many VTC and phone conferences where something prohibited one or more attendees from joining in.

    2 years ago
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  58. By Submitted:

    As I said before. Some hands on face-to-face is needed but not normally.

    Also, to the 0.5% of your budget for travel, I think your situation is an exception to the rule.

    2 years ago
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  59. So much effort is put into making the powerpoints available online, or training on the web by video. I can read a powerpoint, and follow along with a speaker on the phone. This would surely be less expensive than the web+phone, and would eliminate the annoyance of making sure everyone could see the screen. Most of us print out the powerpoints (at least one set per office) to take notes, anyway.

    2 years ago
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  60. I agree must get with the times and

    make good use of video, teleconferencing and

    webinars. That way even those Teleworking could

    be involved if necessary. It would definitely save

    money!

    2 years ago
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  61. By Submitted:

    This is great. Keep the input coming. All of this input will be useful if this idea makes it into a budget proposal.

    Thanks everyone.

    2 years ago
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  62. Why is this particular idea emailed to me daily?

    2 years ago
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  63. Noble idea that you can implement starting with yourself, but managers and civilians must own the decision to reduce travel. Since each person views travel as a perq that both compensates them and gets them out of a doldrum office, they are unlikely to make a choice to forfeit travel.

    On the other hand, our DoD telecon meetings constantly prohibit all participants from dialing in, because the circuits are busy and won't allow additional participants.

    2 years ago
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  64. Come up with efficient ways to communicate. You are asking the government to come up with an efficient way to communicate. Putting Government and Efficiency in the same sentence will not work. The old boy mentality is to spend on what we don't need and communicate only with members of the Old Boy network.

    Have a massive retirement to free up positions for the young and able.

    2 years ago
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  65. This is a good and bad idea. There is room for both.

    2 years ago
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  66. Looks the management has arrived.

    "Noble idea that you can implement starting with yourself, but managers and civilians must own the decision to reduce travel. Since each person views travel as a perq that both compensates them and gets them out of a doldrum office, they are unlikely to make a choice to forfeit travel.

    On the other hand, our DoD telecon meetings constantly prohibit all participants from dialing in, because the circuits are busy and won't allow additional participants."

    2 years ago
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  67. I agree with the idea to offer incentives to reduce the number of older staff members in government that are not computer literate and need to retire. However, this topic is about coming up with more efficient ways to communicate. I am one of those older employees but have also been a computer specialist. I see a lot of older employees barely functional with basic Windows skills. Having said that; being younger and an expert at texting and online social networking does not necessarily make you a productive employee. I see a lot of wasted time with surfing the Web and texting by numerous employees. A lot of older employees still prefer to pick up the phone and call somebody.

    2 years ago
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  68. The only reason this suggestion has the most votes is because the submitter sent it to all other submitters including all agencies. Who doesn't already do this to save money? It is also more convenient in many cases. Often, it is more beneficial to have all talking heads in the same room so travel is critical.

    2 years ago
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  69. My idea is to eliminate end of year spending:

    http://governmentreform.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Elimninate-End-of-Year-Spending/118530-13060

    If you all agree please vote on this as this would literally save us all valuable and even more valuable money.

    2 years ago
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  70. "The only reason this suggestion has the most votes is because the submitter sent it to all other submitters including all agencies. Who doesn't already do this to save money? It is also more convenient in many cases. Often, it is more beneficial to have all talking heads in the same room so travel is critical."

    I have never been to a meeting yet that could not have been accomplished over the phone. I have been to training where face-to-face is important. Especially, when they will be a lot of confusion and you might have to work with someone one-on-one.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    By Submitted

    2 years ago
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  71. "My idea is to eliminate end of year spending:

    http://governmentreform.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Elimninate-End-of-Year-Spending/118530-13060

    If you all agree please vote on this as this would literally save us all valuable and even more valuable money."

    Honestly, I submitted the same idea as this last year and it was at the top for a short time before it was deleted from the site.

    I did vote for this idea and think it would save much more money that the travel. It should be in 1st place if I had my way.

    Mysterious.

    By Submitted.

    2 years ago
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  72. Agree with comment above.

    I posted a comment on how Telework could be used to help on duty injuries and prevent staff from being forced into retirement and lose everything.

    http://governmentreform.ideascale.com/a/dtd/120821-13060

    It's crazy when a federal officer is injured on duty and as a result are forced to retire at a reduced rate and also lose their LEO Retirement. I also believe that Telework is a viable option for other federal employees that are facing medical retirement. We have the resources, but management doesn't want to use them. Lets all continue to vote for these options.

    2 years ago
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  73. I know we have all seen the movies that purport the WHOLE Gov to be like the NSA with top-of-the-line computers and Big Brother type tech. But the reality is that most of the Gov is working with equipment that is 5 yrs behind the telecommunications industry. My Word software was only updated to 2000 in 05 and then to the next version in 07. What yr is it now?

    The point is: until the Gov actually gets closer to current tech and software being widely disseminated, this suggestion is a good one but impractical.

    2 years ago
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  74. The last community member post hit the nail on the head. My computer is woefully inadequate for a lot of the work I need to do including GIS and AutoCAD. We barely have enough RAM to function. I have heard that our goal with the Feds IT is to not be more than 5 years behind the private sector. My current Android phone is faster than the PC on my desk and has 4 times the memory! If we are going to communicate efficiently, we are going to need upgraded equipment to do it properly.

    2 years ago
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  75. I don't want to sound too cynical here ... but if it is important, gov't provides the resources. (I have firsthand experience with the spigot getting turned on.) And you will have a back-up for the activity, and a critical mass of support.

    And if you don't get that kind of support, it wasn't important in the first place.

    Where I work many of the important decisions are not time critical -- whether it takes five years or ten years.

    And no one got anywhere in gov't by saving money. The purpose of the gov't is to SPEND money.

    For a lot of stuff, it just matters that the activity is going on in a certain state or congressional district. (It could be breaking down cardboard boxes for all the difference it makes.)

    But like I said, I don't want to sound too cynical.

    2 years ago
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  76. Although an unintended consequence, employees need to be well-trained on how to use --which would incur costs; however, the costs are lower than airplane tickets.

    2 years ago
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  77. Employees should have the liberty to choose airlines/buses/trains with the lowest fares and use internet travel sites (priceline, expedia, hotwire, orbitz) as long as the flights are U.S.-based carriers.

    2 years ago
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  78. Face it, the gov is in the IT circle of hell. Google chat and Skype....they holler "security, security", no you can't have that. More storage space on your computer, no, you get what the contractor (in our case NMCI) gives, and not a GB more. No, you can't download anything from the internet, no, we are not giving you a web cam. If you need software on a stand alone machine to accomplish your tech work on a wireless network, oh heck no, no wireless allowed here (security reasons), if you need a stand alone computer hardware, start your paperwork now, and in 6 months you will receive a laptop machine that is already obselete. But hey, travel, travel, travel all you want. Most training could easily be accomplished "where you are". It's time to get on board with this century technology. We were updated with Office 2007 last year, and oh yeah, Office 2010 has been out awhile. Keep asking, maybe someone will answer. Unless of course, you are in DC to which none of the above applies. :op

    2 years ago
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  79. Communication is more than just meetings that require travel. 80 plus slides in a powerpoint and meeting after meeting to filter infirmation up is very wasteful. One governement employee at a DAU training told me they had well paid contractors on staff in her DC office that just make PowerPoint slides. How much time do we spend repeating information?

    2 years ago
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  80. Okay, let me pontificate.

    We study Hemmingway in English class because he was very concise. He was a foreign correspondent in the olden days. To file a story, each letter of each word cost money to send via overseas cable. So he had to use the fewest words to convey the story.

    Nowadays, there is no limit, so folks bore everyone to death with a blow-by-blow account when they have the floor. "I got on the Red Line and there was a slip of paper on the floor that the wind blew towards the door as I sped towards Metro Center ...

    Give me a break.

    Conveying the most data in the fewest words is what counts. An index into the world.

    When the Taliban overrun DC, it will be renegades that can pull the trigger of a 9 mm versus the 80 plus PowerPoint slide army.

    I put my money on the Taliban.

    2 years ago
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  81. Why can't I vote this down?

    2 years ago
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  82. It is time for the government to move on into the 21st century. Moving human beings to a common meeting place should be a last resort with the technologu available today. It is comparable to using Phoenician scribes instead of a word processor. Money saved can buy more equipment, spare employees the stress of travel, reduce exposure to disease and sickness, and keep workers at their duty stations longer to get the work done they were hired for.

    2 years ago
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  83. Yes, but some of us live for getting out of the office and on per diem! How many in mid to upper management stay in their office for very long? This is a perk for their position. Just like TQM in the mid-1990's where we would would all work on self directed teams and work with a bottom up mentality, middle and upper management will not buy into better communications if it stifles their free vacations.

    2 years ago
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  84. "When the Taliban overrun DC, it will be renegades that can pull the trigger of a 9 mm versus the 80 plus PowerPoint slide army."

    The CIA will never instruct the Taliban to set up shop here. Otherwise what would be the reason for our presence in the Middle East.

    2 years ago
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  85. Better to put folks on travel. If they hung around the office, they might do some real damage.

    2 years ago
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